Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello everyone. Namu here for Barrel Surf podcast. On this week's show, we have professional surfer writer photographer Matt George catching up with T Bone in T Bone talks to Matt George. T Bone got a hold of Matt living in Bali. Matt goes into his brand new book in deep. It's a collection of stories and interviews with surfers that he's come across along the way. Matt is a fascinating character. He's got a five pay rules. So every time he does an interview, he'll spend five days with someone, getting to know them, living with them, eating with them, drinking with them, just so he can really get a perspective into their life and their world. Barrel Surf podcast.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Barrel Surf podcast.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Barrel Surf podcast. Barrel Surf podcast. Barrel Surf podcast.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Barrel Surf podcast.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Barrel Surf podcast.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: Yeehaw.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: Matt, thanks for joining us on Barrel self podcast. And no better way to kick off. We've just ran the WSL finals and trestles, mate. Did you stay up all night and do an all nighter or did you watch all the replays this morning?
[00:01:16] Speaker C: I stayed up all night. I'm in the same time zone as you know, as well. I live in Bali here, and I'm a big supporter of professional surfing and have been all my life, of course. And I thought it was a great show. I know all the whinging about it should be in 20 foot cloud break and Carissa was the best all year and the whole points. But here, my mentality is that our professional surfing world has always had plenty of whingers. But think about what the WSL is getting done. We can criticize it all day long.
We can say what we want about the wall of positive noise and all this sort of stuff, but look what they've done. They're making surfers rich and they're making surfers rich. Not necessarily rip curl. They're making people like rich, you know? And to me, that alone, because is a great thing. Because I have been a card carrying member of the IPS, the Asp, and the WSL. And they've always been kind of know Tyrone. They've always been kind of crazy. But I found that it's the surfing that matters and how many great titles have been won in small waves. Most of it was, I think it's fitting. And I think the WSL is doing a really great job for the resources that they.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: I mean, I watched the highlights. I stayed up for a little bit, and obviously I was going for some of the Aussie boys, but, you know, having a back injury in Tahiti. And here he is, like, he's surfing just looked like he had no injury at all. It's just phenomenal how he can just lay those big hammers on the walls. What do you think of Ethan surfing? You're a bit of a fan.
[00:03:17] Speaker C: Well, I'm a huge fan and I'll tell you why.
When I saw him take off on that first wave in that first heat, I thought, oh, my God, ethan's going to become world champion.
I thought he was surfing at a world champion level in those waves. And I got to tell you, he reminded me of a mid career Slater flow style power. The kind of surfing that real surfers want to see.
The pump, pump and a jump. Surfing that we see from the Brazilians is interesting.
It's childish.
I don't know, it just seems like to me, it's like one of those bouncy castles that people rent for their six year old's birthday. They're just bouncing along and that frantic, that panicked, frantic nature of that brand of surfing that say, like, philippe Toledo, it's too frantic for me. It's too know.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Zhao Chianka is pretty chaotic, isn't it?
[00:04:20] Speaker C: Yeah. But Ethan surfing, I'm a big fan. I always have been. Even I've followed his surfing since he was young. There's obvious comparisons to Andy irons, but personally, I find his lines far in closer resemblance to Kelly Slater's big looping figure eight surfing. Big looping those, big figure that.
I think he was a deserving second place. I understand the criteria. I understand what's going on. That's fine. But, man, what a great performance from Ethan Ewing.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it was amazing.
Now the flip over to the women's another world title for Florida. So Caroline marks, she just looked so powerful and on point.
To me, she looked like she was always going to win.
Feels bit sorry for Carissa. Two years running. I mean, you could say Carissa was maybe the best surfer of the year, but yeah, big congratulations to Caroline. First title.
[00:05:28] Speaker C: Well, we look at it this way, and certainly myself, when I say we, just the people I've been talking to, I look at it this way. Look, this is like the American Super bowl. You fight, fight, fight all year for the right to go hop into the coliseum in a one day sporting event and show your best and do your best, okay? It's just like our Super bowl. You have to qualify for the day. Now, I understand earning points all year, I get it. I think it's fantastic. Which is why I would like to advise the WSL to lean on the World cup of skiing and I'll tell you, one of their contests is a World cup. Okay? So you can win the World cup and you could win the world title. I think we need a World cup in there so people can be satisfied with things that happen, with people that collect all the points.
What you do is you spend your year earning the points to get to the big day, to get to the state of origin, to get to the grand finals.
That's what you're doing out mean. Another thing, too.
That's what it is. If you remember, Damien Harmon won two world titles and he won it during an era where it was four to the beach, three to the beach, it was called. You had to take off on these waves and just three to the beach, off lip. Off lip all the way to the beach. And you know what he did? He followed the criteria. He was on the tour doing the right thing and he earned two world titles. They are credible world titles because those were the rules. So I believe that this new format, you can complain all you want, but it is what it is. You need to earn your way to that final day. And Ethan Ewing did.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
Even with an injury at Tahiti. I was going to ask you, obviously, you've been through 40 plus years, like you said before. You've seen Asp, WSL, you've seen professional surfing for God knows how long. What do you think of the midseason cut and the whole final five? It sounds like you're a supporter of it.
[00:07:52] Speaker C: As a businessman, I'm a supporter of it. Not that I'm some great businessman, I'm a journalist. And you know what that means. But what I'm saying is it was a smart financial move for the WSL to stay alive. Yes.
As a surfer, no, I don't like it. I want to see all these guys hitting it hard together all year.
There's some of the lower tier surfers that are still great surfers that I enjoy watching, and I get a little bored.
I get a little bored in the back half of the season because to me, the field, it's just too small. And I'm seeing the same guys do the same things over and over and over and I'm not seeing any surprises, which is one of the great things about sport. Any sport. As you know, I'm a Geelong cap supporter, but as you know, in any, you know, the Aussie battler or the underdog is what we're looking for. After the mid year cut. I don't see any.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: No, no. It's funny. Geelong Cats. So I don't know if you remember, Western Bulldogs finished eigth a few years ago and then came up and won the grand final. And it was just the biggest football grand final win for years and years because it hadn't been Western Bulldogs'first grand final. I can't remember how many years. But to come from 8th to the first, everyone just loved the underdog, the battler to win. Speaking of sports, I was just looking this morning, there's so much sports. You've got the NFL over in the States starting today, is that right? The NFL?
[00:09:35] Speaker C: Yeah, opening day, man, opening day.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: And then I see over in they've.
[00:09:41] Speaker C: Got the World cup rugby.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: I actually was watching the All Blacks play France last night and then obviously WS finals. We've got the NFL, we've got the AFL finals. Are you a bit of a sports mad person or you sort of got a couple of sports that you follow?
[00:09:57] Speaker C: I have a couple of sports that I follow. I often ask people what their favorite Olympic sport is and I ask them what is your favorite Winter Olympic sport and what is your favorite summer Olympic sport? And you can tell a lot about someone's personality when you ask that question.
I have a very eclectic taste. First of all, I love springboard diving for some reason it relates to surfing. And of course in high school I was briefly a springboard diver and I like to watch the downhill skiing, of course. And I'm a big Olympic fan of in the summer Olympics. I love the field and track. I just love it. And so those sort of individual sports like surfers, I'm not a big team flag waiver.
The sports that I follow are more like surfing. They're very individual private efforts. So yes, the reason I'm a Geelong cats fan is I used to spend a lot of time down in Torquay with the Bells beach contest. I was a competitor when I was young. I then became a journalist and spent a lot of time and I became the american voice of spent announcing the contest. Me and Claude Warbrook and guys like Neil Ridgway and Reggae and all those guys. And so it's just fun to get involved in the incredible spirit of sport with Australians, to be able to talk about cricket, to be able to talk about the AFL and all this with them. It's just so much damn fun because to you guys it's such a religion and it's just really fun to get together with my australian friends and tell them my different perspective and poke a little fun at it.
I really enjoy that. But no, I don't have any sports posters on my walls of my heroes. I don't wave a lot of flags.
I don't wear the Newcastle Knights t shirt I have. You know what I mean?
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: When I go to watch the, know the Broncos up there in.
I think. I think it's interesting that I've spent a lot of time in, lived in. I've lived in Australia and I used to live up above the manly ferry there. And I remember the manly Eagles had their practice pitch not far from the place that I was living. And when they started to work out and practice, you could hear them from like four blocks away. You could hear these monsters smashing into each other. And it was an incredible sound, I will tell you, from blocks away. Oh, my.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Rugby is not a sport that I took up. I mean, I grew up in Western Australia, so there's always AFL and cricket. But rugby, you got to have a certain build to that sport.
[00:13:15] Speaker C: Yes. I think that you need to be part terminator. Exactly.
So horrible. I never played, just I wasn't man.
But I've enjoyed my cricket.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: That's a gentleman's sport, which they like to get together afterwards in the club rooms for a few beers. So it's a good one.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Hey, Matt, what I wanted to ask you, and we were talking about the WSL before.
[00:13:43] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Eric Logan's obviously departed the.
To what sort of person do you think needs to come in to be the new CEO?
[00:13:55] Speaker C: I think it should be me.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: You know what? I was going to ask you if you were interested. No.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: Would you?
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Seriously?
[00:14:02] Speaker C: I'm very interested. The only thing I don't have a background in is business and boardrooms and suits and ties and the amount of money that's getting thrown around, especially with this new saudi arabian interest and all this. That's the only thing. So the reason I very egotistically say it should be me is because I think I represent a lot of surfers. I think it could be a lot of surfer. I think it could be a surfer on the street because the bottom line is it needs a surfer in charge. It needs someone that doesn't put their fins in backwards.
And the bottom line is that, yes, the surfer run ips and the surfer run Asp was a bit of a mess. Yes. And so it swung in the other direction. We got a bunch of Disney executives and a bunch of Oprah people to come in and try to do this. The biggest mistake that is being made is trying to appeal to the mainstream, that mythical mainstream. And I was there in 1985 at the Allentown wave pool contest where the great Ian Cairns and the great Pete town, and who I respect deeply because they tried to bring the australian attitude of surfing to America and they really tried to get it into the mainstream.
It's not going to work. It's never going to be a mainstream sport. We must celebrate ourselves as fringe dwellers. We have to do this. That is what is interesting about us. The fact that we jump off the edge of the continent and face this incredible interface between the ocean and the sea. And that is what's in our character. Like, for example, when you have to endure those dreadful post heat interviews with the WSL, those horrible things that make us look like a bunch of simpletons, it outrages me as a.
What. What message are we trying to say? I think we need to send out the message that we are remarkable athletes doing a remarkable act and that we are wild characters in a very wild global coastal sport.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: I wish they were more like. I wouldn't say honest, but you look at UFC. Donna White, to me, has no filter about the sport. Just how it.
I. Sometimes I wish the WSL commentators or the CEO can just say it how it is and not try sugarcoat it so much.
[00:16:50] Speaker C: Yes, there's been a lot of dishonesty. And the main thing is everybody sounds uninformed now. Peter Mel, a titan in our sport, is so well informed. This guy was a hot, small wave surfer, aerial specialist. He's a badass. He's a big, tall brawler. He's a surfboard shaper. He comes from a legacy of surfing and a family of surfing with his father, John Mel. And he's from Santa Cruz, for crying out loud. That's like being from yelling up. You know what I mean? These guys can clear out bars. You know what? And he is. He is so informed and yet he's like a horse that has a bridle and they're just holding him back and not letting him run.
We should be able to say these things. My God, Tyrone, do I remember our commentary at the Bells beach contests? I did it for 15 years. It was the best commentary. Oh, my. Me claw warbrick reggae Ellis, Neil Ridgway. We even had Peter Druan up there. We had all these people and we were calling it as it is. And it doesn't mean you have to do the Australian write off. It doesn't have to be that you speak the truth and you speak about these people who you know and their personalities know. Hey, yeah, just the other know, Shane Horan and I, we were surfing down at Johanna. There no, I think it was Gibson steps and, you know what I mean? Like, really getting on. You know what I mean?
I hear you. We need that. And when it comes to the mainstream, I think they would be fascinated by that 100%.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Hey, Matt, I'd like to talk a little bit about maybe your early days. Now, I know some of our listeners across Australia may not know a lot about you.
Just briefly tell us where you grew up and how'd you get into.
[00:18:51] Speaker C: Sure. Sure, I will. Can I say something first, though? And it's going to sound like. I don't know, it's going to sound like I'm trying to groom you or something. But one of the points I wanted to get across was that I'm really happy to be on a podcast in Western Australia. And I'll tell you why I love that place. I've always loved desert surfing all my life, because just to the south of us, we have Baja California, and I spent a lot of time there and the adventure of the great winds and how I can relate to the Fremantle doctor and just that open ground and that big, clean, pristine, beautiful ocean you guys have. And just that big know, to me, when I was competing and even when I went on to be a journalist, I really looked forward to Western Australia. And I wanted you to know that my beginnings are real simple. I was born to a navy family, so we were know since birth, and we ended up in Honolulu. My dad was stationed at Pearl harbor and my dad at the time was a very rare thing.
He was a navy pilot that had become a navy dentist. And he was a single father with three children. My older sister, my older brother Sam, that I'm sure everybody's familiar with. And me, the youngest. And he was a single father. And in 1967, there was no such thing as daycare. And so since there was no room on the base where we could live, the navy put us up on Hotel street in Waikiki in a hotel, which I don't know if you remember Hotel street in those days, but it was basically the red light district and we'll talk about that some other time. But anyway, my dad would go down to the beach with us in the morning, basically at dawn, and he'd have a slab of primo beer and he'd give it to the local beach boys and go, these guys are great swimmers. Don't worry about them. I'll be back later. And that was our sister would. My sister would be on the beach reading her books. And Sam and I were taught how to surf by surfing legends. Rabbit Kakai, Leroy Achoi. And we were taught how to surf. And one of the interesting things that I think about my brother and I is that we were pushed into the very first wave at exactly the same time. And we stood up at the same time as regular foots, and we just looked at each other. And by the time my board hit the sand and sifted up onto that beautiful Waikiki beach, I knew I had my answer for the rest of my life. And by God, Sam and I made our whole lives about surfing, and we're very proud of that.
What luck it was to not only be taught by great beach boys so that we were good surfers right away, and to be taught all the ocean skills by these guys, but to have put the hook in us in such an incredible environment as waiki key in 1967. Wow.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: That's classic, mate. What a business model for a daycare.
[00:22:10] Speaker C: Perfect.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that would have been amazing, man. I grew up in the middle of West Australia. We grew up in a desert, and we couldn't go too wrong, but we were just left to our own devices, basically, of course. But I grew up with four brothers, and actually, one time we all just got on our bikes and rode away for the day. And then our parents were concerned, 12 hours later, we weren't back. So they end up calling the police. We were actually in a beer garden.
Call them beer gardens in Australia, a big outdoor pub. And we're just hanging out in the swings in the beer.
[00:22:49] Speaker C: You. I've got to tell you, I know what a beer garden is, man. Okay, but you know, this daycare program, I think that we should get your listeners to put a petition together, and we can test it at Triggs point. Wow.
Test it up there at Triggs? Sure.
Start out easy. Start out easy.
We don't want to start at the bombing.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Yeah, go easy on them before, like you were a pro surfer. Now, tell me if these dates are right. Matt, 1979 to 1984, you were on the pro tour?
[00:23:26] Speaker C: Yes, I was.
Both my brother Sam and I were on the pro tour.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: And then I was just looking at some of the.
Who won the world titles that year? You're on the tour when Mr. Had the four world titles in a row.
[00:23:42] Speaker C: I've surfed against rabbit, Sean, Mr. Denke. Aloha. You bet I have. Did I win a single heat against them? No, but I was out there throwing punches.
No, I was a bit of a ghost on the tour. I was a mid level surfer. My surfing did not suit competition surfing. My brother, of course, was a good, competitive surfer. He was a West coast champion, almost became America's national champion. But my surfing was more about grace and about tube riding. And my personality didn't suit. I'd be out in the heat and I'd say, oh, go ahead, gary Templey, or go ahead, rabbit, you take this one. I was that guy. And come on, man, that's never going to work. So I'm not making any excuses. I was proud of what I tried.
The other big issue with my surfing is I was never a big wave charger. I always had a little anxiety out in giant surf, which is why I never lit the north shore up. My brother had a good dig at it, but I wasn't one of those guys dropping into 20 foot sunset beach and stuff. So that held me back as well. But I was still proud of what I did. I did the best I could, and I was always so much more interested in telling the stories about everything.
I was way more interested in that than I was in actually trying to get a trophy.
That pretty much sums up my entire pro surfing career. But do you know, my brother and I were sponsored by stubbies?
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:25:25] Speaker C: Yeah, we were sponsored by stubbies. And how that happened is a remarkable.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Remind me if they were the shorts you had. The little stubby shorts.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Yeah, the little stubby shorts that were inspired by brickies.
You got your blondies and your stabbies, mate.
The stubbies, of course, are your small beers there, but the lunch beer for the brickies. But, yeah. The australian company really liked my brother and my attitude. They thought we were very marketable and we were young and fit, and we presented a good package. So they came over to America and tried to sell stubbies to the Americans. So for a couple of years, my brother and I were the stubies team, just him and I.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: That's a classic.
[00:26:14] Speaker C: We loved it.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: I take it you would have surfed because they had a couple of stubby sponsored events at Burley, didn't they?
[00:26:20] Speaker C: Boy, did they. Yes.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: That was quite an iconic event, wasn't it? Up on the.
[00:26:26] Speaker C: That was the event because, Tyron, it was so exotic. I mean, back then, the Burley head hill that. Know the car park with that beautiful grass that went up that hill, and it was that headland. And you could look down into surfers paradise and look up into Kruban alley area and all just. And that crystal clear water and those sand dredging barrels for us in California to come over there, it was nirvana. And the honor of being able to compete in that thing, because we'd been watching the surf movies and doing all this and to paddle out against rabbit know it was a real honor.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: I tell you what, I grew up in Perth but moved down to the yelling up region later in life. But I remember I grew up on tracks magazines and just seeing the Od video clip of the stubbies of Burley. And for me as a kid, being a natural footer, that place looked like Nirvana as well over here on the.
[00:27:35] Speaker C: West coast and no wetsuits. Tyrone. Yes, you could paddle out in your.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.
So, Matt, you mentioned obviously you had a passion for writing. When did you actually start surf riding? I know you've written other things than surf, but when you actually get into.
[00:27:55] Speaker C: Writing, I have written very little about other things than surfing. Very little.
I've been writing about surfing all my life. It's been 35 years now. You mentioned 40 years earlier. I want to correct everybody because remember, old is always ten years older than you are. Okay, so it's only been 35 years, man.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: Sorry, man.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: Anyway, but here's the thing.
I was always a storyteller. And when I retired from my pro career, which basically meant I just had enough, I took a chance.
I bought a good camera, learned how to use it in like a week by hanging out at a camera store, if you can believe that. And then I went to the Caribbean to surf a specific wave that my brother had surfed that I hadn't. And it just seemed like paradise. It was called Cane Garden Bay and it was on a british virgin island of Tortola. And I knew that the travel issue of Surfer magazine was coming up. So I went there completely independently on my own dime, found the wave and I shot a photo from the boat I was on of one anonymous guy on a perfect wave with that perfect backdrop. Neat. Do you want to come down and talk to us? And I thought I'd just won an, you know, I was getting ready to accept a Nobel Peace prize for that article, you know what I mean? Like, wow. So I drove down there and walked in and said, look, matt, you know, because you're so connected to the surfing world and because you know all these guys and because we, this, the writing talent you have in this story, how would you feel about being our editor at large? And I said, I have no idea what that means. And he, we want, we want to send you around the world. We want you to keep going tour. We want to send you everywhere around the world and you can just report back on it.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Dream job.
[00:29:59] Speaker C: Now, Tyrone, I want you to think about that for a second. That's a dream job.
Think about somebody asking you that, would you like to do this?
Have you taken leave of your senses? Of course I will.
And that started the whole thing.
And it was lucky that I knew everybody and it was lucky that I'd been in heats and this was lucky that I had these connections and that people, I'd been talking to these people since I was a kid. So that gave me a real advantage to get really deep.
That's why my brother gave me the title for the book in deep. He just said, matt, you've always been in deep. You've been embedded, you've written from the inside out. You're not an acolyte, you're not a fan, you're not sitting at the feet of Kelly Slater. Hey, give me an interview, Kelly. It was never that. It was very, you know, I think, unique in a way. Tyrone, because I was connected. It was almost like I was a mafia guy. Writing about the mafia.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: That'S classic, mate.
Yeah. You know, I've seen the COVID and I mean, I know who's on the boat of your book in deep. When I first looked at that, I thought indo adventure.
[00:31:31] Speaker C: Yes.
Can you describe 1984? That was 1984. And I'll tell you something real interesting about that.
1984, Bali. Yes. Had been discovered, yes. But 1984, it was still here. Bali was still here in 1984. And we heard about this place called shipwrecks because we saw it in a movie and it was in the little island of new slim Bongan. And to get over there, you had to sail over there in one of those prachus with a single cylinder engine going over these 20 foot waves in the channel and all this kind of stuff. And it was adventure. It still was adventure to get over there. And I just thought that that photo really, the photo, the COVID of the book in deep, I think it really says a lot about surfing and not about me.
The only thing it says about me that I'm proud of is that it was my brothers and my adventure, and we're still joined at the hip and our surfing life has always been ours. And the luck of having that as well.
A brother who is also a great rider and has an encyclopedic knowledge of surfing, that was also a lucky thing for me in my riding. But that picture where you see one of the early Channel islands thrusters in the foreground with glass on fins, no less, and there we are on that boat. And how we paid for our trip is that we brought the first refrigerator to.
Oh, it was on the boat, we had to bring a refrigerator, and that's how we paid for our.
And I'll tell you what, the surf was insane, and we had found it. And in this moment on the COVID we just pulled up and the first set came through, and Bernie Baker said, hey. And we looked over and he wanted to get the look on our faces. And there it is. And thank you for recognizing that, because I think that photo is very special. Not because I'm in it. I think it's special because it captures a sense of adventure that still exists today. Whether you're an eight year old dragging your surfboard down the manly corso at the end of the street, or whether you're finding wild waves in the Andaman islands as a grown, still. It still exists. And I think this cover captures that youthful glee of adventure and discovery.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it took me back to my first trip to Indo in 86, and I remember going to gland in 87.
It just reminded me of the.
And I still remember the trip. It was maybe the best part, getting there.
[00:34:25] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
G land in 1987 was an adventure, brother. Don't forget that. Was still an adventure, man. Was.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And even just making the trek out to Ulawatu, still etched in my memory bank all those years mean I still get that same feeling when you go walk down into the cave. It's still there. But, yeah, I just love.
[00:34:53] Speaker C: Things. That's one of the things about Bali, the 7th state of Australia, basically.
How many states do you guys have? So, nine. Seven. Nine. But anyway, here's the thing.
It's still here, Tyrone. It's still here. Yes. This place has had the holy hell beat out of it with development and catastrophes and natural disasters and bombings.
Particularly all this development that's going on that just weighs so heavily on our shoulders here. But, man, you walk into that cave or you walk down through the steps or you look into the eyes of an old igbo making your nausea goring and she smiles at you. It's here, man. It's still here, and it always will be. And most of all, the liquid gold is here. These waves have not changed a wit. Yeah, liquid gold for these people here, for the indonesian people, the balinese people. Those waves have pumped so much money into them, their kids are getting educated, they've gotten better medicine. There's some real positive side to all this, to the surfing colonization of Bali. You can whinge as much as you want, but you can look into the positive side of things.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:36:21] Speaker C: I'll tell you, one of the most positive things that's happening is the environmentalism. Yes. It's a slow evolution, but I saw a little kid just the other day, couldn't be ten years old, and his friend had an ice cream on the beach, and he dropped the wrapper and the ten year old shoved him onto the ground and forced him to pick it up and put it in the garbage. Wow. These were Indonesians. I just went, okay, great. And then, of course, there was that great movement that I'm very proud that I was a small part of, but it was student led, where it eventually led to no plastic bags in any of the quickie marks.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah, that's.
[00:36:58] Speaker C: These young kids did know. I helped promote it. Big deal. They did it. So that's really exciting. And we have this tremendous, if any, Bali lovers out there in Western Australia. We have this tremendous nonprofit here called Sunai Watch. Tsunai is the word in Bahasa for river. And, man, are they doing a hell of a job. So if you feel like contributing to something because you love Bali, look up Sunai watch and send them like, $10 million because they're doing a great job.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah.
[00:37:37] Speaker C: I assume you have that in your account. You have a loose 10 million around.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah, we get a few dollars from the podcast.
Actually, the only thing we get from the podcast, Matt, is beer and wine. We've got a local brewery down here called cheeky monkey beer.
And then obviously, Margaret river is littered with wineries. We've got a really nice wine. It probably doesn't help that cause, but I'm sure we can put it out to our listeners to get the cobwebs out of their wallets and support a place that us West Aussies visit every year.
Now, your book in deep, and I heard you described it as something you put in the bathroom.
[00:38:23] Speaker C: Yes. Great bathroom book. And I'll tell you why.
I think it's really important. Even though we've told stories of the old days and even though I'm in my early 60s, this is not a memoir. It is not a history book. It is not set in chronological order.
This is a book for young people. This is a book for people that will. That. If you want to get into surfing and you really want to see what's going on and get that feeling of character that you don't get on instagram, that you don't get on the WSL broadcasts, it's because this book is a book of stories, individual, unrelated stories that you do not have to read from start to finish. You can thumb through it in the bathroom there. And, oh, I think I'll read about, oh, okay, I'll read that one. Oh, that one looks interesting. That sort of thing. They're short. They're magazine articles. They're digestible. And also, I would also like to say that I'm a big supporter all my career of female surfing, and I have a lot of stories. There's a number of stories in here that really get inside the heads of Stephanie Gilmore.
The list goes on. So I'd really like to see some female girl reader surfers out there to believe in this book, because there's a lot about them. And I'm not trying to pitch it. I'm not trying to sell anybody any insurance. I'm just letting them know that this is not a history book. It is not in chronological order. It's a group of stories that will make you proud to be a surfer.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: That's awesome. A group of stories that resonates for me. And I'm sure a lot of our barrel surf podcasts, listeners, they love to hear stories. And actually my eight year old said to me, dad, I want to start surfing. So we're going to actually start in Bali. And when I think of the book and all the stories, I think of something to pass on to your kids to read about and having so many characters in the book and so many stories.
[00:40:39] Speaker C: And you know what? Something funny happened the other day. There was this young person, and she was a surfer. And she said, oh, yeah, I heard you wrote a book. I said, yeah, sure. She goes, I read some. I'd love to read it. So I happened to be in the surf shop at the time that carried it here, the white monkey surf shop. And so I stepped over and grabbed the book, and I said, here you go. And I put in her hands, and she goes, oh, no, this book is way too heavy. I could never read this. And I thought for a second, I said, too heavy philosophically or what are you talking about? No, it just weighs too much. Like, I can't read books like that. They weigh too much. And I just went, oh, my God, lady, listen, young lady, listen. So I thumbed open to the Kiala Kenley story, and I said, I just want you to read the first three sentences out loud. Just do it. And so she read the first three sentences and went, oh, wow. And I said, look, I'm giving you this. I am buying this book for you. This is yours. Take it home and get into it. Yeah. Gosh, maybe it isn't too heavy.
[00:41:45] Speaker A: That's plastic.
[00:41:46] Speaker C: Can you imagine? Don't judge a book by its cover.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: Can you imagine?
[00:41:49] Speaker C: Don't judge a book by its weight.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: No, that's the first I haven't heard that one.
But speaking of stories I actually saw in one of the local newspapers, it's been 40 years since Australia won the America's cup. And obviously there's a lot of controversy about the wing keel. And obviously Shane Haran used the wing keel.
So in your book, you said you spent a week with.
Yeah. Can you describe that week? And have you actually caught up with Shane over the last few years?
[00:42:27] Speaker C: Oh, yes.
Let me see.
As most people know, I do not do a story on a personality. I have my five day rule. It's called. And my five day rule is I will not do a profile on a famous surfer or anybody unless I can live with them for five days. And that's 24/7 I've slept on a lot of couches.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: Have you ever broken that rule, Matt? The five day. Have you ever broken that? Or is it always.
[00:42:56] Speaker C: It's always that. It's got to be a minimum of five days or more. Or more. I need to spend time with you. I want to know your mother's maiden name. It's real. There's nothing worse than those interviews where you get 15 minutes in a cafe somewhere. There's nothing worse. They're so shallow. It's like Instagram. It's so bloggy on Instagram. Everybody's swimming around in the shallow end. You want to get deep. I keep saying it, don't I? You want to get in deep. Okay. You want to get in there and see what's going. So, you know, this is why we don't have no idea who John John Florence is. We have no idea these days. Who are these people? Who are these people who are influencing us so deeply? The way we surf, what we ride, how we dress, what we want to be, what inspires us. And we don't know a goddamn thing about them. And that's what the modern social media has done, because everybody's Bethany Hamilton. Because on the instagram, you wake up and cuckoo, I'm in my ice bath, and here I'm having my asahi, and, oh, here's my beautiful wife's birthday. And, you know, they're arguing and it's know, come. You know, can we get real with these guys that influence us so deeply? So anyway, with.
I was. I was a friend of Shane's and still am. And I was so proud of what he was doing when everybody else thought he was insane.
Here was a young man that was orphaned to the world tour. He was basically award of the world tour. He grew up in scrably Bondi. He was the national skateboarding champion. He had that shock of blonde hair and the white zinc oxide on his nose. And he was a tremendous surfer and a great tube and all these things. But who was raising this know? He always seemed to be familyless.
Mark Richards, always, family support, family support. You heard all about the family support.
And so when he decided, he got to an age where he decided to find his own path and he decided to experiment with the popsicle stick boards and the laser zap and Ben Lexon's sailing designs and all this, and to live out on a commune in Gooningary up above Byron Bay and studying yoga and macrobiotic diet and living with men and being celibate with women and trying to find his own path. I thought, hooray for you. You're finding yourself. And this was the period. Now when you read that story, you will find a lot of disdain in my voice because I was shocked at how rootless it was.
It didn't have a foundation. It was like he was on a cloud and I wanted it to really have strong roots. And so that's why you'll hear a lot of disdain in my voice because of the other men that he was living with were full of shit and pardon my language, everybody.
And he wasn't because he was a great champion and a great australian athlete. And the people he was with, they were shootable.
They weren't at his level.
And so when you read that article, shane Haran's rainbow bridge, you'll hear a lot of disdain in my voice. And Shane and I talked about it later in life and he said, you know, matt, you could have been so much more positive about things in that article. Know, we were really trying to change something. And I had to tell Shane, shane, it seemed like you were. I wouldn't say we, so I'm with. And when we talked it out and shook hands like mates do, because he said, but I'll tell you one thing, Matt, there was nothing in that feature that wasn't true. So I can't pull you up on that. I said, thanks, shane. I appreciate that. So we're still mates? Yeah.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: Classic. How much impact mentally did it have on Shane coming runner up four times, do you think?
[00:47:27] Speaker C: Well, what I observed, because he was the most fierce competitor of any surfer, more than he, let me put it this way. During the Bells beach contest, our lay days were spent playing AFL next to the torquay pub in the field there. And Shane would mow everybody down and grab the ball and never kick and never pass, ever. He was going to make it. To make it was going to be a goal or nothing. Shane. I'm open. I'm open. I'm open. I'm open. Kick it, kick it.
[00:48:12] Speaker B: Kick it.
[00:48:12] Speaker C: No, he'd hang on to it.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: We call that hungry in ifl.
[00:48:18] Speaker C: Yeah, he's hungry.
I don't even know if he could kick. We didn't even know if he knew know. We're just. God. Once Shane got the thing, we just stepped aside. Go ahead, Shane. Go ahead. So he was so fiercely competitive that I believe, and so individual that I believe he was rocked by the Mark Richards design, the style of surfing that Mark Richards was doing without any tube writing. You remember Shane was a tube hungry.
Shane invented the know and he was doing all these. Mark was, you know, another friend of mine. Mark was looping around on this twin thing, like, where is he going on this thing? It was like, wow. I'll tell you one thing, he wasn't where he wasn't going. He wasn't going in the tube. And Shane Haran thought the tube was very important to competitive surfing. And when you see him surf, you'll see he's always looking for it. Even if it's just a little cover up at Burley or something. You have to utilize that part of the wave. So I think that. And please don't think that I'm running down our great four time champion, Mark Richards. He's a good friend of mine, but I'll tell it like it know. And I think, shane, this is what really spun him off into. I've got to come up with my own design and my own way to win a world.
It was. It was brutalizing four times to come in second place. When you're the guy that doesn't let go of the football ever.
And he was so interested in. He just knew that there was another design out there. There was another one. And I love people that go too far, that laser zap or that popsicle stick. I love people that go so far that they have to come back. It reminds me of the shortboard revolution of 1967 68 and all that, where Bob McTavish and these guys are cutting their boards down to 4ft. And the 1970 world titles, which, of course I wasn't there, but when Nat young and those guys showed up with like five twos and stuff, and American Ralph Arness on a seven two, just surfed circles around him because he could catch a wave. But I love guys that go too far with design. So to get back to it, my answer is this. Did four Mark Richards world titles affect Shane Haran deeply and affect his life deeply? Absolutely, yes. And I was there to see, yeah.
[00:51:06] Speaker A: Such a legend just on board designs. It just actually made me think of know, in, in the early days of Kelly's surfing career, was he sort of chopping and changing surfboards like he's designed, or is it over the last 1015 years? It looks like Kelly's not afraid to try different boards, different fin setups. Has he always sort of been experimental with these surfboard designs all his career? Or did you think it's the last decade or so?
[00:51:40] Speaker C: It's the last decade or so or last 15 years maybe. Let's face it, he hasn't won anything ever since he got off of Channel Islands. But I'll tell you, I talked to Kelly a lot. He wrote the forward to the book.
He's a mate. And here's the thing.
When you've done what he has done, I think it's really healthy for every one of us as surfers to seek some time in our life, to seek different sensations on a wave. And that is what he did. Winning contests or heats or. No, he reached a point where he was ready to feel some new sensations and to experiment with design. Now, I don't know when's the last time you've been out on a knee board and you've stood up on it, but it's a different sensation, it's a different feeling, it's a different surfing. And trying to incorporate that into a world tour is something that Shane Haran did. It could be deadly.
But do you really want to ride a 511 thruster your whole life?
I'll answer your question. In the early days, no, he was being given boards like any young superman, of course. And then he came along at the apex of Al Merrick's shaping the apex, because he'd learned all this stuff from Tom current. And Kelly Slater inherited the wisdom of the greatest surfboards on earth at that time. And that had a lot to do with those eleven world titles because not only Kelly's inhuman skills, but the fact that those boards were tuned and waiting for a surfer like Kelly Slater to take it to the next level. And he inherited all that wisdom and he inherited those boards. And man, did he know how to ride them. So to answer your question, no, he was given boards when he was young. He reached an age in his remarkable career where he wanted to experiment and find new sensations. And I, for 01:00 a.m. Proud of him for doing it.
[00:53:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I think as all West Aussies grew up watching black and white, and I just remember seeing on the Al Merrick at trestles, and I thought.
[00:54:07] Speaker C: Wow, that was really something. And everyone else was trying to catch guy.
You know what's remarkable about the guy that came the closest of all of them was Rob Machado. Yeah. And Rob Machado was so beautiful.
His surfing was so beautiful, and Kelly's was just so perfect, but it wasn't, you know, Kelly's lines were explosive and powerful and right and, of course, stylish, but Rob was beautiful.
You know what I mean? It still is. He made a career of being beautiful because that's what was in his heart.
Unlike most surfers who come from really messed up backgrounds and single mom families and just being orphaned to the surfing world, I mean, even myself, my single dad, rob, came from a beautiful place in north county, San Diego. He had a middle class, loving family surrounded by a loving mother and a loving father and brothers and sisters that all came to each other's birthday parties. And it was beautiful. So look at his surfing. It was beautiful.
Now, you come from a hard scrabble american battler background like Kelly Slater, and I know nobody looks at him like that, and I'll tell you why in a second.
I know a lot of Australians thought that Kelly just burst onto the scene with a silver spoon in his know. No way, man. I was there when he was young. Single mom, absentee father sleeping on the floor on mattresses underneath, moving blankets.
Hard life, broken down car that his mom would, you know, this smoking car that his mom would drive to all these contests.
No.
Kelly fought his way to what he got. Believe me.
It's the whole, you know, he came from the Gaza strip of surfing, and he made it. So that's something that I've always been really proud of. My friend Kelly, I've been very proud of him to have surmounted what to many people would be crushing ods when he was young.
[00:56:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. You mentioned he wrote the forward, and I know there's a couple of stories in your book about when you first met Kelly, and, yeah, I think a lot of surfers can relate. I'm sure there's a lot of surfers that have grew up in single parent families that will relate. And you're right, Matt. There's probably little Aussies that don't know about yet. They probably had this thing in their heads that he was sort of given everything on a platter.
That's awesome.
[00:57:22] Speaker C: Now Aki, sure.
Aki. I love Aki. I love talking about Aki. He's great.
[00:57:30] Speaker A: You talk about battlers, you talk about people coming back. And obviously that 99 world title, ocky obviously won that year and to where he came from to get to winning that world title, we all loved it.
I'd like to know the first time you actually met Mark Ocalupo.
[00:57:54] Speaker C: It was at the coke contest there at Manly. And it wasn't during the contest, it was at the north Stain pub.
And I went to get my countermeal, my kangaroo steak.
He was next to me and he introduced himself. He goes, hey, aren't you that Matt George guy? And I'm like, yeah, you're the yank. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah.
And we just struck up a conversation and the whole thing. And that's where I got the idea of doing a story with Mark because he was coming on and he was such an incredible surfer. And God, did I love the way he surfs.
Just love it. And I loved it. And so anyway, what happened was back then, and this will make all the journalists out there, this is going to make their mouth water. Back then, Surfer magazine would literally give me an envelope full of cash in one hand and a ticket in the other and go. Go cover the australian scene for the do. Write whatever you want. Do whatever you want, but get in and give us stories. Okay. And I'm just like. And I had a camera as well. And I never shot surfing. I shot personalities in places and that always supported my articles. And you can see a lot of these cool photos in the book. Actually, it's not a photo book at all. It's a literary book. And the photos are just the size of credit cards, but you get the idea. But anyway, with Mark, I was talking to him and he was one of those people that I wasn't really interested in what he was saying. I was interested in what he was not saying.
I go, there's something really interesting here. So I said, hey, Mark, what do you say I come visit, we do an article for Surfer magazine? Oh, mate, that'd be great. And I'm like, all right, man, let's do know. So I went and lived with him in his apartment he just bought in Cronulla and discovered something very personal that I think a lot of us suffer and a lot of us deal with. And that is trying to impress a very difficult father.
I think that that was the story I told was his challenge of this remarkable family that he belongs know with a mother that's related to Sir Edmund Hillary. And a father know, wears a shiny suit and is obviously deeply know it. Here was a father that wanted him to be the next Alberto Tomba. That he wanted him to be the next great skier. What's this? Surfing know. And so Mark faced that personal family challenge. And I think that's something that all of us deal know. Particularly surfers that have come from a humble background.
[01:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
Were you at bells during those iconic.
[01:00:57] Speaker C: Famous.
The famous heat with Tom? And I was traveling with Tom Kern at the time. And I think it was me and reggae Alice and Neil Ridgway, I think we were. And Claude Warbrick. We were the commentary for that heat.
[01:01:15] Speaker A: Wow.
[01:01:15] Speaker C: Was I there? Yes, you were.
And to this day, you know what? Honestly, I can close my eyes and still see some of those maneuvers. Isn't that remarkable? It's like you can close your eyes maybe, and remember a famous movie scene. Or I can. I can remember that one backside off the lip that Aki did where he hit it and he got a little airborne and then landed and recovered. And back then, I know that happens all day long now, but back then we were just like, this guy is unbelievable.
It was great. And it's great to see them in these legacy heats it out at JBA. I was going, they should have put these guys in the contest.
I think they do pretty well against, you know. I reckon Tommy would give Philippe Toledo a run for his money at JBay.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: Sure.
Ockie at JBay, Tommy.
Just phenomenal. And obviously the world title 99.
Yeah. Like I said before, I was stoked as a fan and as growing up idolizing hockey.
You say that potentially was the greatest win of all time. Like a comeback win.
[01:02:42] Speaker C: Sure.
And I think it is a great australian moment that should be celebrated. And I'll tell you why I was so proud of. Well, Australia is when I went to Australia to cover the season in 2000.
And I see, in the middle of Sydney, I see a big billboard of good on, you know, good on, you know. And this, you know, Australia has recognized this great sporting achievement, particularly Australians that know how to swim before they walk and how important the beach environment is to you and how environmental Australians are and all this. And here is an ocean athlete hero that came back with this incredible achievement. I just think that I hope that he has a firm place in the memories and the pantheon of great, you know, that's awesome.
[01:03:43] Speaker A: Hey, just sticking with the Bradman.
[01:03:46] Speaker C: The Bradman of Australia. Bonnie Bradman, guacalupo legend.
[01:03:50] Speaker A: Legend.
We'll celebrate him till forever.
[01:03:56] Speaker C: Sure.
[01:03:56] Speaker A: Now Bell's beach. We'll stick on that.
Me as a kid, one of my memories is watching Nicky Wood actually think I was maybe similar age to Nicky Wood when he won bells defeating Tom.
[01:04:12] Speaker C: Curran, if you remember.
[01:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
And obviously over the. To me, it feels like after you won that Bells title, you just sort of fell off the planet, just disappeared. I know he kept competing.
What are your recollections of Nikki Wood? I mean, 16 years of age. I take it you were at Bells for that win.
[01:04:34] Speaker C: I was there. I was there.
First of all, I got to say that bells is my all time favorite.
Certainly. Tournament. Surfing tournament of all time. I had so much fun there, and Australia was just so welcoming to me. And I've got these great memories and I've seen these great surfers like Nikki Wood at 16 years old, winning this thing.
I didn't get real close to him because of the age difference.
He was a very private young man, and I think that so much attention was being thrown his way. He almost. To me, he looked like the kid that knew magic tricks. And the parents force him to come out during the cocktail party when everybody. Where all the grown ups are drunk and he has to do the tricks. That little kid. No, wear the hat, honey. Wear the top hat, honey. That kind of thing. And that was really difficult. And then, of course, there were the influences around him, particularly his girlfriend, who's quite a bit older than him and known as the black widow. And she terrified us. I mean, she was terrifying. But anyway, I certainly won't mention any names. And then there was the fact of that incredible physical thing. He was facing the physical challenge of growing too fast, too tall. The pain involved in that, the remarkable growth spurt. He had, what was it, seven inches in one year? And the joint pain and all this stuff. And so we were very understanding that. But I missed that story. That's one of the stories that I did not tell. I missed that one. I would have liked to get into it. But I tell you who did a great job, if I'm not mistaken, was Derek Riley. Derek did a great. Back in the glory days of journalism.
Let us not forget, Derek Riley is a great journalist. And I think if you're interested in the Nicky woods story, try to find that.
[01:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
[01:06:38] Speaker C: Because I still work for tracks. I've worked for tracks as long as I've worked for Surfer magazine 35 years. I just recently have a story in tracks. In fact, in the new issue, I have a great story about Dylan Wilcox and that little kid from out in the mental eye that surfs better than Andy Irons.
[01:06:56] Speaker A: Yes, I know the kid you're talking about.
[01:07:00] Speaker C: He's wild and what a great story. And I hope everybody runs out right now and buys tracks because tracks is the greatest surfing magazine ever. So go get it. Not because of the story in it. I don't care. Just get the magazine itself. It's true blue. And of course, I've got to say also Sean Doherty's magazine, surfing world, I mean, to me, that is an australian national treasure.
Come on, guys, get out there and get some print media into your head and stop scrolling and get into it.
100%.
[01:07:38] Speaker A: So many great stories in deep.
Michael Peterson. Yeah, Michael Peterson. You talked about the stubies. You were sponsored by stubbies.
You would have seen mp compete during the stubbies. Was he around?
[01:07:57] Speaker C: I just know he was already experiencing his fall from grace by the time I got there.
[01:08:04] Speaker A: Yeah, okay.
[01:08:05] Speaker C: But I've had close encounters with Michael Peterson. And I call them close encounters because it is like alien life has landed on know.
I've had some pretty incredible encounters with.
I don't. I don't know if he knew anybody. Be honest with you. He was so into his own. I was going to say I don't think he knows me.
But the reason I say that is because there's been times where our eyes have met and he's regarded me and I know that he felt something like, this is an guy. This guy is either dangerous to me, this Matt George guy is either dangerous to me or he's something. Because the one thing that Michael Peterson had was he could read people.
He could read people from a distance with one look of his eye. I know that. Talk to Rabbit. Rabbit will say the same know. And strangely enough, his brother Tommy has that they can judge someone and see whether to completely ignore them or beware of them or embrace them. And the look I always got from Michael Peterson was beware of this Matt George guy because he sees.
[01:09:32] Speaker A: Interesting.
[01:09:33] Speaker C: I know that sounds really self aggrandizing. I'm so. But I'm just being honest, man.
[01:09:39] Speaker A: Please.
[01:09:42] Speaker C: He saw that I can see people like him.
That's what I'm saying.
[01:09:47] Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's classic.
[01:09:49] Speaker C: Sound like a jerk?
[01:09:52] Speaker A: Not at all. Not at all. Now, Rabbit.
Rabbit.
[01:09:56] Speaker C: The great rabbit. Bartholomew great rabbit.
[01:09:59] Speaker A: We love his commentary.
[01:10:01] Speaker C: I love him.
[01:10:02] Speaker A: We bumped into him, actually gave him a couple of some beers down at the Margaret river pro, always rabbit. And. Yeah.
You got any rabbit stories? I'm sure hundreds do.
[01:10:19] Speaker C: I have rabbit stories. He is just unbelievable.
And we spend a lot of time, and I've got a lot of time for Rabbit. I think he was a great world champion and he did it, Tyrone. He did it on know, let's face it, he was surrounded by superior surfers, okay. But he did it because he held his chin up and he pushed his chest out and he said, I'm doing this, and you use mugs.
He approached his pro career as if he was Ulysses and the reading that he did about all about these great heroes like Hercules and all this mythology and all this stuff, and he's, man, I'm part of this.
He's like Prometheus. I can draw fire from the sky.
Damned if he.
[01:11:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:11:14] Speaker C: And on the other hand, I remember seeing him and Tom Curran together. And I think Rabbit Bartholomew is one of the only people that could really sit down, have a conversation with Tom, including me. I spent a lot of time with Tom. We practically used to live together.
But there was something about Rabbit and Tom, and let's not forget that rabbit, Bartholomew, Tom Curran, lists him as one of his greatest influences.
And I think Rabbit is a very important australian sporting icon. And I think what he achieved is the achievement of that athlete that was not as gifted know, surfing against Mark Richards and Dane K Loha and all these guys, but on courage and on bravery and boldness.
He took the world title that he knew was his since birth.
And every time I see Rabbit, I hug him. Oh, Rab. Bugsy. So good to see you. Yeah, mate. You know, he's just wonderful. Wow. And his relationship with, you know, there's a story.
Rabbit used to play a lot of chess with Tommy Peterson.
And there's a story that I've lost somewhere in the magazines. I'm going to try to find it. I'm going to America for the book tour in two days, and I'm going to try to go through my archive of magazines. There was a story. There was this one night, it was late at night, and Rabbit was playing chess with Tommy Peterson. And I was know, probably thumbing through a tracks magazine, and Michael Peterson walks into the room, and it was like his aura was know. And it was almost like when Michael Peterson walked into the room, there was three people.
He was like, three people. He walks into the room and him and Rab were, you know, rab, how, you know, Mick, how's it going?
And Michael Peterson folded his arms together and started watching the chess and all of a sudden, Rabbit starts looking up at him like this. And Michael would, like, blink twice, and Rabbit would nod, and he'd move a piece, and then. And then Tommy would mind your own no. And Michael said, I'm not saying on. Hang on. So all of a sudden, Rab's getting in a little trouble, and he looks back up at Mick, and Mick makes this little face, and rabbit goes, and he wins the.
[01:14:07] Speaker A: Oh, classic.
[01:14:09] Speaker C: And Mick never said a word.
That's just legendary stuff, man.
Rabbit and Michael Peterson and Tommy and the whole gold coast crazies, those wonderful people. Wow. You'll find some of those stories in this book. But you know what? You've inspired me to go. I wrote about that moment, and I'm going to go try to find it, because it's a neat story.
[01:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds amazing.
Hey, Tommy Curran was obviously one of my favorite surfers. I know he's one of yours. Was he a super, like, he doesn't. He never struck me as a super competitive guy.
He won three world titles. He could have won more if he wanted to. Was he really super competitive?
[01:14:55] Speaker C: In a word, yes.
[01:14:57] Speaker A: Second to Shane. Okay.
[01:14:59] Speaker C: Second to Shane Haran, let me tell you.
[01:15:01] Speaker B: Right?
[01:15:02] Speaker A: I just never got.
[01:15:04] Speaker C: I've seen Tommy Kerr. He wanted this. Okay, here we have another guy, terrible family background. Absentee father, rabidly evangelist mother, living in a little rented house below a freeway overpass with his father, building a boat in the yard that he was planning to escape the family with.
Wow. Are you listening to this? This is Tommy's background.
My brother Sam and I used to pick him up, feed him, bring him surf things. We surf together, then drop him off back at the house. I remember once, one of the famous stories, it's in the book, one of the little stories is we came to pick up Tommy, and all of a sudden, of their little house, the little rental house that was there. Boom. The screen door opens, and little Jeannie Curran, his mom, with the television, the family television set over her head. She was far stronger than she looked because she wasn't very big. Came staggering out of the house onto the porch, and she screams, satan, get ye behind me. And she throws the television set out into the yard, where it explodes.
Yes.
Tommy, with his board and his towel, kind of sneaks out between her legs and runs down the stairs and hops in the car and says, let's get out of here. Right?
And listen, I love Jeannie. She was a good mother. I mean, she picked food on the table for those kids, and she was there she was there, evangelist or no. So please, I'm not insulting anybody's mum. That was just a remarkable moment. And by know she believed that television was evil. So good on, you know, so please, I'm not trying to insult anyone. It was just, this is the background Tommy came from. But let me get back to your question.
Your questions are so good that I always fly off in different directions. But hang on. So the question was Tommy competitive? Hell yes.
I have shown up to pick him up to go surfing in the 80s, where I found him at dawn across the street in the playground, across the street, jumping on and off a merrygo round. Do you know what a merry go round is?
[01:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we've got them over here.
[01:17:38] Speaker C: One of those metal merry go rounds. He was doing pliometrics.
He'd read about pliometrics because he knew watching surfing that he needed more leg strength. He had skinny little legs.
If you look at the early surfing of him, he was not a big man, and he had skinny little legs, and he knew his legs were a challenge. And so I'd go over and I'd sit there, and I'd sit down on a bench and just watch him for a while, jumping on and off a moving merrygoround. And then he would go over, he would jump up on the bench next to me while we were talking.
Where are we surfing today? Jump, I think backside. Rinkon maybe. I don't know. Maybe we should go down to jump. Maybe we should go. And he would be doing this. And if you look at the history of his photographs, or even his surfing, you will see that over a one year period, his legs all of a sudden looked like Tommy Carroll's.
[01:18:39] Speaker A: Wow.
[01:18:41] Speaker C: Is that he? No, I don't think so. That might have been an exaggeration, but at any rate, no, Tommy wanted this. He wanted this, and he had his beautiful young wife, and she even told me, man, people think this. We would be watching Tommy in a heat like when he won the Kate and against all the great surfers, the Katen contest, Hendem beach. And he wasn't allowed to take the prize money. And I remember his wife just going, this guy wants this, man. He wants this. So don't ever think that Tom Kern wasn't a tremendous competitor with resolute confidence in himself. I have a question for you. Have you ever seen him fall off?
[01:19:27] Speaker A: Straight off, top of my head?
[01:19:29] Speaker C: No, I never have. I've known him for 35 years.
He's unbelievable.
[01:19:36] Speaker A: I have seen him surf. Surf Margaret river. It's only time I've seen him surf life was Margaret river.
[01:19:44] Speaker C: That's back when they were surfing the left as the contest.
[01:19:46] Speaker A: That's right.
[01:19:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:19:47] Speaker A: Back in the mid eighty s. And.
[01:19:50] Speaker C: That was that giant. Giant.
I was there. That's a giant day that changed people. It made some surfers quit. I'm never doing that again.
[01:20:03] Speaker A: I was on the beach too, Matt. My mom drove me down from Perth and we just heard on the radio, Margaret Rivers, 18 to 20ft. And we were just jumping out of our skin to get down to the beach. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because you do have a story about Mike Parsons. And I've got the photo of snips was in the final.
So you were in Margaret river that year as Mike.
[01:20:32] Speaker C: No, my was. I was. I was driving around in the team America Holden station wagon that we got at the police auction. But at any rate, the thing is. No, my story on Mike Parsons takes place in San Francisco when he wins the national.
I didn't. I didn't write that story about Western Australia, but I was there.
[01:21:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you mentioned it. Just mention it.
[01:21:05] Speaker C: I certainly mentioned it. Yeah. There was a Surfer named Chris Burke, an american surfer, who took such a tremendous wipeout that day that he just said, that's it. I'm done. I'm done with this pro surfing thing. He almost died and just said, that's it. I've had enough.
Those sets that were coming in out of the Indian Ocean as bigger than Waimea.
Power beyond imagination. I mean, that day really defined the mythology of Western Australia and the power that you guys have over there, where everything is bigger.
Pilchards are 6ft. Big white sharks are bigger than submarines. The waves are 80ft. Jesus, man. You guys. Everything in Western Australia reflects how big Western Australia is.
[01:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a phenomenal coastline and, yeah, feel privileged to call this place home. So have you done much surfing around the Margaret river area when you came in on those trips?
[01:22:17] Speaker C: I was a rabbit hill local. Come on, man.
Hell, yes. And then. Is there still a spot called car park?
[01:22:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:22:30] Speaker C: It still breaks.
[01:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it still breaks.
[01:22:33] Speaker C: Okay, so we pull up the car. My memory of car park. We pull up there and somebody had made, like, a sign that it looked like a child made it with crayon saying shark. Right. And was nice enough to put it in the parking lot. And we're like, yeah, how can you play surfers? The surfer is insane. Great. We're all getting into our wetsuits, the whole thing. And all of a sudden, I think it was Dave Parmaner. Hey, Matt. Yeah, Dave. You want to come take a look at this?
I walk over, we look out in the surf, and there's a submarine size shark right through the lineup.
And Dave picked up. He had the sign in his hand. He goes, I guess this guy was right. So there were sharks back then too, mate. Let me tell you. I was out at, was out in. And it was a lay day. So Shane Haran, Dave Parmin and I took the ferry out there and we went to a place called radars out at there, okay?
[01:23:42] Speaker A: I know the way out on the.
[01:23:45] Speaker C: Was it was Shane who first looked at me with a little bit of alarm. And I looked back at him and then I felt the alarm and then I looked at Dave and Dave looked at me. You know how surfers feel that know? And all of a sudden, right below Shane, and he was maybe two board lengths away from me, this shadow went underneath him. And I swear to you, the eye on this thing, the eye on this giant white shark was the size, it looked like the size of a dinner plate. And it was interested and we all stayed sort of calm. But I think that we all ran to the beach on top of the water.
I'm convinced that we actually ran on top of the water to get to the beach. But we got out of there, man. We stayed together. A set came, we got to the beach. But that thing was interested, man, because it was only us three in the water.
[01:24:43] Speaker A: Rottnest is sharky rotto, as we call it. Very sharky place.
[01:24:49] Speaker C: Yeah, but what about those guys? I met a guy here who did the mainland of rotnest swim nuts. I'm like, those people should be incarcerated for being criminally insane.
My God, the courage that would take.
[01:25:05] Speaker A: I know there's so much boats and there's so much watercraft. I think maybe that's why there hasn't been an attack. But yeah, they're cruising around, that's for sure.
[01:25:18] Speaker C: So these are the kind of experiences that I had with these surfers and that I was able to get on the inside and look out. And I also wanted to mention that I mentioned Dave Parminer's name. He's a dear friend.
[01:25:33] Speaker A: Surfing style. I used to love the way he surfs.
[01:25:35] Speaker C: Dave. Yeah, he's fantastic. And let's not forget, I think he's the best surf journalist in history. The way he wrote was just so.
It was like reading John Steinbeck or something. You know what think he. I would suggest everybody out there, if you're interested in good writing, go to Dave Parmenner's substac.
It's a website where you can create your own thing. Just go to substack and read Sam George and read Dave Parmenner if you're interested in reading. And Tyrone, of course I'm interested in readers.
I love talking directly to people that read about surfing. So I think those are two really good suggestions.
[01:26:20] Speaker A: That's awesome mate, that's awesome. And we can mention that in the details of this podcast as well.
[01:26:29] Speaker C: Thanks. I'm sorry about all these plugs.
They just come naturally.
If I'm not supposed to plug things, let me know. Like, I'm not saying go out and buy a rip curl, know, at least I'm not doing that.
[01:26:40] Speaker A: There's no filter on this podcast. Whatever comes out, comes out. And yeah, don't really, really enjoying listening to you, Matt, I know you mentioned Kelly and Tom are the greatest surfers you ever seen and they're the same for me. I'm interested to get your take on who you think some of the greatest australian surfers that you've ever seen grace the water.
[01:27:07] Speaker C: Well, let me tell you a moment that happened recently.
I think Mick Fanning may be the greatest world champion we've ever had.
Here's a man who came from a devastating background as a kid and now look at him. He's partnered with Rip Curl ceos, he's a successful businessman, he's a family man.
I don't know if you've seen the latest rip Curl movie, but he just still surfs like a wild animal.
He's physically fit, he's come back from tremendous injuries. He has won three world titles.
To me he is an unquestioned, I'm going to say it, I think he's the greatest world champion we've ever had because of everything he has done in the surfing world. And I include helping out people during the floods and the fires and he steps to it.
[01:28:10] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:28:11] Speaker C: He puts his body on the line. And let me tell you something that happened recently that really convinced me of that. Now of course Kelly Slater, but Mick Fanning, everything that now surrounds him to me was distilled in one moment. We recently lost one of the sons of Bali here. We lost McCallough Jones to terrible tragedy in the meantwa and we all went to his big ceremony here at the cemetery in the was he was going to be cremated and it was a private invite type thing and outdoor facility. And we're all there and we all gather and we're all very quiet and I look over to my right. And there's Mick Fanning. And he's sitting in the back row between two old indonesian women that didn't know who he was. And he was just sitting there very quietly and respectfully and throughout the entire ceremony when people were called to come up and say words. Is there anyone else out there that would like to say words? Did Mick Fanning go up there? No, he was not going to make it about Mick Fanning. I could feel it. He was good friends with McCallough but he was not going to go up there. And all of a sudden Mick fanning was of. He sat in the back, he was quiet, he was respectful. When it was over, he quietly spoke with the family and he left. And he flew in for that without any fanfare. Nobody knew he was here. Nobody knew he was doing it. And that's when I tipped my hat, Mick. It really moved me. Here's a man. This is a man.
[01:30:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Well said, matt. Yeah, no, he's a legend.
Words can't describe how much of a legend guy he is. And all the other stuff outside of surfing that he's been supporting. You mentioned about some of the tragedies that we've had over on the east coast with the fire and the floods.
[01:30:23] Speaker C: Can I mention another world champion that I'm really impressed with?
Let me tell you, it gets a bad rap. Damien Hardman, have you seen him surf? I don't know, guys.
[01:30:34] Speaker A: I used to love dormers. I haven't seen him surf for age. I used to love Domers.
[01:30:40] Speaker C: Have you seen him in the mental eye? Have you seen his tube riding? Have you seen all this? Let me tell you. Well, you know, back then, the format of know you kiss my ass. Damien Harvin was a great australian champion. He won two world titles. Guys, that doesn't happen by accident. And he was good surfer and a good guy. And I think he really Narabine. My God. And I think he represented Australia with pride. And I would like people out there to recognize, in retrospect that he was a deserving two time world champion.
So that's my call.
[01:31:18] Speaker A: No, he was a legend. Yeah, no, good call. Couple of great world champs.
What I wanted to ask you about was Rio. Wider obviously made big news. Being the first Indonesian to make the CT. I did ask Booger Cliff this question. Why has it taken so long for an Indonesian to make the championship tour? And will we see more surfers like Rio come and get on the big stage from Indonesia?
[01:31:49] Speaker C: It's a matter of discipline.
The balinese surfers, some of the most graceful, beautiful surfers.
The Maday winata adiputra known as bowl garut wittyarta mega samadhi. These parang parang cup winners that paddle out into the rip curl. I mean, the Padang Padang cup and beat all the international surfers that come here fair and square.
[01:32:20] Speaker A: Okay?
[01:32:21] Speaker C: But there's the rub. It's this perfect surf, man.
It's the stuff that you draw on the side of your math test when you're a little kid and you're bored. It's dream surf everywhere you go.
So you think that an Indonesian who is very close to culture, very close to family you think they want to put on a wetsuit and go surf in Argentina where no one understands them, their culture. Here they live in extended families, great grandmothers, all the way down to the new kids. They live in a compound. They live together. It's wonderful. They have their food that they love and it's delicious and it all gets cooked and everybody shares. Then they have these incredible waves that they own these waves. And there's no wetsuits. There's no wetsuits. Okay? All this kind of stuff adds up because balinese and indonesian surfers, in my opinion, are so internally happy and content and satisfied because of their family, their culture, their beliefs and their waves.
Why leave?
[01:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[01:33:39] Speaker C: They don't need the money. They don't need the money. They don't need the money. They've got family. They eat plenty of food and cows over their head and they're loved. Why?
Now?
I'm getting to Rio, but the question is a matter of discipline now, 1979, North Stradbroke island. I'm 20 years old and there was a contest where they took eight internationals and put them up against eight Australians on north Stradbroke island.
I represented the United States of America, okay? And Katut Menda from Bali got the job of representing Indonesia. And we were roommates in the north Stradbroke hotel when that cyclone hit.
But I'm going off on a different story. So there was a surfer that tried. There was Katut. Then there was Dede Suriana who got all the way to snapper rocks in a heat against Kelly Slater. We were very proud of that. But again, needed to go home. Oni Anwar rip curl poured over a million dollars into this guy. Moved him to Australia, got him coaches. He's back home in Lakey Peak now.
Why leave now? Rio?
I mentioned discipline earlier, just the other night. There was a young, ambitious kid here, a boule kid, an expat kid. And he, you know, we're at this big celebration, and he goes, hey, where's Rio, man? Shouldn't Rio be here? Where is he? Where's Rio? And a friend of mine looked at this little kid and said, he's somewhere doing push ups, man.
So Rio has trained hard. He was just born this thing. And as you know, he is half japanese. And so maybe in that blood is a great deal of discipline. He also comes from an extremely humble family in Jimbon, and his father and mother have had to work very hard for him, and he honors that. And maybe that's japanese blood, too. Maybe it's in all our blood. But he has got training, discipline, and he lives it every day. And that has been the difference. And let us not forget that his life was influenced by the great football player Lionel Messi, the soccer guy.
When Lionel Messi was young, he was very small and he had growth problems. And his parents worked very hard to get early growth hormone therapy. And I remember Rio's mother telling me the story of they were in their little, know, the little tiny place where they're making nausea, goring and all this stuff, and over on the black and white tv, all scratchy and broken and the whole thing, she saw this story about Lionel Messi getting these growth hormone injections and therapy, and she realized her son was suffering from the same thing. We have to realize that Rio Waida was not growing properly. He was very small, picked on at school. Everybody thought he was in fourth grade when he was in 8th grade, and it wasn't going to happen. And he had a dream. He had a surfing dream, and he was showing all this discipline. And so his mother went to the father and said, we've got to get him on growth hormones. We have to do this. And it cost a billion dollars. So the mother took a new job, and the father took one of those horrible jobs in Japan as an indonesian worker, building high rise buildings just to afford the growth horn.
And that is why Rio looks the way he does today, with those wide shoulders and the body that looks a lot like Kelly Slater, actually, overdeveloped, wide shoulders, very slim hips. But look at his hands.
Growth hormone, for some reason, doesn't affect the bones in the hands very much.
Yeah. So if you meet Rio and he's completely open about, yeah, just take his hands. His hands don't really match the body. This is the challenge that this guy faced, just like all these other guys, like Kelly and Mick and all these guys with this family background, and these guys are battlers.
So to answer your question? Rio has had discipline. That's why it has happened for him.
[01:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I did meet Rio very briefly. He seemed quite a shy guy. He was with his brother in Margaret river and he was with Aria. I don't think I've pronounced that name.
[01:38:43] Speaker C: Arya.
[01:38:44] Speaker A: Yeah, he was with him.
[01:38:45] Speaker C: We'll just call him Aria. Yeah, I get it. He's a real leader. A real leader of indonesian surfing. Him, Tim, Tippy, Jabric. These are the big names.
[01:38:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:38:55] Speaker C: Big promoters.
[01:38:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I've met Tippy before. We've actually had Tippy on the podcast.
[01:39:02] Speaker C: He's a good surfer, too.
[01:39:03] Speaker A: He's a good guy. Hey, we're probably going to get to the end of this and I could actually sit here for hours, Matt, and.
[01:39:13] Speaker C: Just look at storyteller man.
[01:39:17] Speaker A: It'd be good. If you ever get to yelling up and we can actually get you in our shed and yelling up and have a few beers with it or even.
[01:39:26] Speaker C: A glass of red, I'll come down there with Mark.
I'm determined to have another australian tour. I've got another one in me and I want to come down and cover the whole australian leg. And I'm sure I'll be able to make it happen.
[01:39:41] Speaker A: That'd be epic. Now, on the podcast, and sorry I didn't give you any pre warning, but you call it segments. We have a Steve Irwin salute, which is basically anyone or anything in surfing that you give the double thumbs up.
And on the flip side, we've got the Clive Palmer Cup. Clive Palmer is a greedy mining mogul who tried to sue Western Australia. So basically, Clive Palmer cup nomination is for someone or something that you give the thumbs down in surfing. So doesn't matter if you don't have a Clive Palmer or a Steve Irwin, but we'll start off with a clive. Do you have any Clive Palmer cup nominations on anything that's pissed you off with surfing, whether it's present?
[01:40:35] Speaker C: Yes. The irresponsibility of surf schools, the wild irresponsibility of it. Okay. The fact that so many of them are with people who are not well informed, they don't do any ocean safety rescue, CPR training certified by the Red Cross or by, is it St. Angel at St. Andrews.
They don't teach them how to the courtesies of the just. They collect the money. They get them on these Jerry Lopez soft tops, and they dump them in the ocean. They push them into some waves, they encourage them, and it's over. Now, I know there's some good surf schools out there, but I'm going to generalize. I'm thumbs down to these irresponsible surf schools that are clogging our lineups with people who are not properly trained. And I'm talking about, in their minds about what surfing is. Anyone can get pushed into a wave and get stoked and graduate from a soft top to a long board. Yes, I get it. No, I'm talking about these surf schools that don't really sit these people down and go, look, you're about to be a part of a tribe, a very, very special global tribe that has its own language and its own oral traditions and history. And it's got some rules, man. And you break these rules and you're breaking the code of the tribe. And when you break the code of the tribe in any indigenous culture, which I consider us, you get ostracized and you get pushed aside and you're on your own. I want these surf schools to adapt that philosophy, mate.
[01:42:20] Speaker A: I agree we don't have many here in the west, but, yeah, I do see a lot of surf schools and other parts, but that's a great Clive Palmer cup nomination because you're sending people out to the ocean that could cause more harm than good and put surfers in the lineup, in danger sometimes to try to rescue some of these people if they come unstuck. So, no, I like it. I like it very much.
All right, mate. On the flip side, Steve Irwin, salute. Now, you know the Steve Irwin, obviously.
[01:43:00] Speaker C: Are you kidding? I know Steve Irwin was a huge hero in.
[01:43:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:43:08] Speaker C: You got to understand that. He was a hit. I know you guys poked a lot of fun at him, but we love this guy.
We started saying, crikey, for Christ's sake, we love this guy.
And we loved. Crocodile Dundee was a phenomenon in America.
Americans love Australia, and we love Steve Irwin. So my thumbs up is the print surfing media in Australia, okay? You got australian surfing life, surfing world, and tracks. Big thumbs up to these guys. They are still holding it down, telling great stories, informing people. And I'll tell you something else that these print magazines do, and I want everybody out there with a mobile phone to hear this one.
To see a surfing photograph, a double page spread is something very special when you're on your phone. These images of surfing, first of all, are moving. Second of all, they're the size of a postage stamp. Now, remember what it's like to paddle out into the surf and see your brother or a mate or someone get a great ride as you're paddling out and they're surfing in your mind will take a photograph of that and you will never forget it. You will never forget that moment. This is what. Opening up a magazine and seeing a double page spread bigger than your little phone and it's stopped. It's not this hysterical world that we're living in with all these clips of people bouncing and jumping in tuberat and all this stuff. It's a chance to stop and look and listen to what we're doing.
[01:44:58] Speaker A: Well said, mate. Well said. Couple of great. That's a great Steve Irwin salute. So important.
Stop, look and listen. What we're.
Now, Matt, now for us aussies over here, how do we get hold of your book?
[01:45:18] Speaker C: You know what?
Amazon is the easiest. Just go to Amazon.
You can contact the publisher and all. I'm not going to put you through that. Just go to Amazon. That'd be. And they're real good about it. They're real good about it.
[01:45:33] Speaker A: Yeah, no worries. Well, mate, I'm going to let you go. What do we got? It's nearly lunchtime. We're in the same time zone. But if you do come over next year to cover the CT leg of Mart river, please make contact with us. And whether it's just a quick catch up or we'll get you in the shed to talk more surf stories. And it'd be an honor to get.
[01:46:00] Speaker C: You know, it would be my honor. As I mentioned earlier, I'm such a fan of Western Australia and I understand it. I understand it because I have so much desert surfing I've done. And I'm going to have to insist that when you take me to the shed that I get to pick the Margaret River Shiraz.
[01:46:19] Speaker A: No problem at all.
[01:46:21] Speaker C: Okay, mate. All right?
[01:46:22] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks, Matt. Cheers, mate.
[01:46:24] Speaker C: All right, brother. Thanks so much. And to all my western australian surfing brothers. Get out there and get it on. I'll see you next year, you.
[01:46:32] Speaker B: Thanks, bud.
Cranked it up and I sang about. It was such a way out day. I made up my mind. You kept some rainforest importer.
See the girl and the way, the way step, you don't grab your girl and grab your. Damn. Your opinion your new ray dance I'll be dressed, baby dreaming of A-T-O it for turn the sea let hand the girl and the town the way new wave.
Then suddenly it occurs to me there's no ear.
You. You'll be cruising through the burger and if we wind up leaving that we'll stay out late. You drink and try enforcer import this be the girl and the way.
There's no earth.
